9 Responses to “Are You For or Against Health Care Reform and Why?”

• Lee Says:
  September 17th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

  Jilly3,

  I too share your frustration and also try very hard to keep up with all sides and options. I think the question is not that it needs to change but how and from what I understand about what is currently on the table it does not change that much and costs a fortune. As a self employed individual the taxes we face currently are grossly unfair in my opinion to start with and the current healthcare reform will cost a fortune. No one can seem to answer how we will pay for it and the deficits that I have heard thrown around are terrifying. I just do not think we can afford to erode the value of the dollar even more…basically we cannot afford. yes it is true that many countries do provide outstanding healthcare at no cost to their citizens but in most cases those countries are so much smaller than the us it is not an appropriate comparison. Certainly part of the reform should include subsides to medical students so they are not so indebt when they become doctors and also a huge push to make americans healthier would also help. Anyway that is my take on my limited knowledge of a very complex issue.
  Lee
• suzen Says:
  September 17th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

  Boy this IS a frustrating topic – to me, frustrating only because there is so much arguing about it! And the absolutely stupid MISinterpretations on behalf of the protestors I saw on the news who haven’t understood anything about this and make up stuff, and don’t listen to facts – grrrrrr!

  I am all for it! My daughter was denied basic health coverage due to an auto accident 10 years ago! Her doctors, including the neurologist, wrote to the company on her behalf, stating the small aneurism in her brain (mri) was due to a concussion and that anyone having a concussion has some little one in their head! But oh NO, they denied her coverage.

  This is insane. Personal, but nonetheless aggravating. The whole insurance thing is a mess, the medical a mess. And you are for sure right – it all needs fixing.

  Most of the protestations are coming from people who think the govt is taking AWAY their right to choose. Damn it – listen folks! This is going to help the uninsured, the underinsured, the
  people who NEED it! Obviously I’m frustrated too.
• Lea Says:
  September 20th, 2009 at 10:10 am

  Jillian, I’m right with you on all counts — including the part about lagging behind a bit on current events lately. I used to log onto nytimes.com every day without fail, but life has been throwing me curve balls. I give you props for attending that meeting to learn more. You’re a woman of action!

  At any rate, of COURSE I am for health care reform. As you say, how could I NOT be? And the argument that we can’t “afford” it is super lame. Could we afford the war the Bush administration pushed us into? No, but that didn’t stop us.

  In short, I think it’s worth it to fix health care as quickly as we can — as long as we figure out the financial side responsibly, too. (I have faith in Obama on that count.)

  Yes, the economy has a lot of recovering to do. And yes, healthcare is expensive. But if everyone’s laid up or sick and can’t get healthcare, how will they work to help in that economic recovery?

  Really, I think it’s pretty basic: It’s vitally important to our country’s continued strength that we help our citizens maintain their physical health. Period.
• Jessica Says:
  September 21st, 2009 at 2:37 pm

  I will not post much, but only leave this – the people who are protesting keep repeating that they do not want to have to pay for others. My question is when the HELL did everyone in this nation stop caring about “others”? That is my beef, in a nutshell, although obviously all the other parts/facets/facts are taken into account.
• Jillian Says:
  September 21st, 2009 at 3:09 pm

  Amen sista! I am right there with you on that one. That is all you had to say.
• Elizabeth Mitchell Hunt Says:
  September 25th, 2009 at 10:32 am

  I am passionately against the proposed HealthCare Reform despite. And, I do care about people. And, I am not manipulated by anyone, nor am I a right wing pyscho. I am not opposed to intelligent reform or for striving to make healthcare more accessible to everyone.

  Here is why I am opposed, in brief, to the proposed legislation. It will absolutely cost most people a lot more money and/or will be worse care.

  Most people who are against the reform (almost 60% of the US population now) do not want it because it will personally cost them more and/or that the care they have and like will change. Most people with employer or union provided plans have so-called Cadillac plans. It is not a stretch to think that if companies are taxed a 35% premium for “cadillac plans” they will either stop offering those plans (which will be a change people do not want) or they will offer them but increase the employee contribution to cover the cost increase.

  How much would the increas be. My husband is a Financial Analyst (before you think I am out-of-touch and he is evil, let me tell you he was out of work for 18 months and we risked losing everything) he crunched the numbers and it goes like this. If you have a family plan that costs your company 1000 per month (it’s more like 1800 but for simplicity I will use $1000) and your contribution is now $100, the increase to your company would be $350. If they say you can keep this plan but we need you to cover the cost increase, your new payment would be $450 per month or a 450% increase?!?!? Fair? To who?! If anyone hasn’t noticed companies are in cost cutting mode. They cannot afford the cost of the benefits they now offer. They cannot afford the salaries. They are still laying people off. So, inevitably, this increase in cost is either going to force them to lay more people off, change the health benefits they offer so the fall out of the “cadillac” category or ask employees to increase their contributions.

  Again I must stress who the people are with Cadillac plans – teachers, police, fire, secretaries, IT people, janatorial staff, coal miners, service union employees, lawyers, doctors, marketing, accountants and senior executives…basically everyone you know. Companies offer the same plans to all employees

  The president’s first plan was to tax the employee benefit directly (if you remember a few months ago) but noone in Congress would go along with it because it is political suicide. And so, they are disingenously presenting that they are going to tax the employer instead. It is the exact same thing and everyone knows it which is why Harry Ried (D) who gets elected by the Service Union employees in Nevado has come out against it and Jay Rockefeller (D) who gets elected by the Coal Miners has said he will not support it.

  But the fact that I love my doctors and don’t want to pay more is not nearly the most important issue. There are two more I will dicuss.

  Ideas are grea but success is totally dependent on the execution plan – 10% inspiration 90% persperation. That is why you can have the greatest idea in the world but you will not be able to get it funded without a great business plan and a management team with a proven track record of success.

  All they have are ideas. There is no execution plan. The management team is non-existent.The last people on earth I would trust to develop the health care plan are US Senators and Congress people with absolutely ZERO experience in this field?!?! The last people in the world I want executing said terrible plan would be the Federal government.

  270 million people have health insurance, something like 30 million do not. I could be off by a few million here or there but who isn’t these days. I do not think 70% of the population should be forced to pay a 450% increase in healthcare costs to fund a program that MIGHT, only might and likely might not succeed in making the healthcare for the 30% marginally better.

  The last part is personal. My sister’s husband Dan, a very healthy mediterranean diet eating, runner, walk everywhere person who was a very liberal adjunct professor of ESL at Boston University went to his doctor 27 months ago to get Xanax because he thought he was having panic attacks. He doctor immediately diagnosed he was having pre-siezures, sent him within hours for an MRI. The next day he had surgery to remove a brain tumor. It was stage 4 cancer. My sister, a public school teacher, held the insurance plan.

  By all statistical measures, the cost of extending his life expectancy from 3 monthes to 11.2 months was not worth the cost. He was going to die. But neither MGH or their insurer blinked or balked. MGH told both he and my sister they saw him as an individual and that he should fight and that they should focus on the possibility that he could maybe even extend his life 5-10 years if his individual body responded well. He did radiation and chemo but the MRIs showed that the tumor was still growing albeit more slowly. He and my sister fought for every extra second. And it was worth it, you know why, because she got pregnant with their first child. Almost 11 months after his diagnosis, he was in Hospice at Massachusetts General Hospital with my pregnant sister and his mother never leaving his side. My sister was due that week for the ultra sound that would tell them whether they were having a boy or a girl. Dan really wanted a girl. My sister’s OB (from another hospital) arrange for the ultra sound to be done at MGH. My mom, brother and sister escorted her from Dan’s room to have the ultra sound. So moved by her situation, it was the head of the department that did the Ultra Sound and several technicians were in the room. When the doctor announced that it was a girl, everyone in the room erupted in applause. My sister raced back to tell Dan. Despite heavy sedation, he perked up and asked her to close the door. As she started to talk about names, he stopped her and said, “Stella Lucia” which fittingly means starlight in Italian, a language they both adored. He died two days later on July 22nd, 2008. My sister gave birth to Stell on December 13th 2008. I was the stand-in in the delivery room. When they baby was born the first thing she asked was, “Does she look like Dan.” She did. She looks exactly like him. Every doctor and nurse was crying. They took unbeleivable care of her. The protected her. Everyone was informed and both respected and empathized with her loss.

  Stella was a miracle. If he had not been given those 9 extra months, she would not be here.

  With every fiber of my being, I know that if MGH and the Health Insurance Company were following a government plan based on prognosis, he would not have been treated. Objectively, statistically it makes no sense to spend millions of dollars to keep someone alive 9 extra months.

  Stella will hopefully be here for 87 years.
• Jillian Says:
  October 1st, 2009 at 5:11 am

  Hello Elizabeth,

  Thank you so much for passionately responding to this post. I have made some comments which are listed below Sheri Cogley’s response. Sheri is a Regional Field Director for Organizing for America:

  1) Ironically, the number one goal of this legislation is to bring down costs to consumers.

  2) There are “FOUR” bills currently, soon to be a fifth…which bill is she referencing, which line in the bill?

  3) There is no such thing as the “President’s bill.” The house has three bills out of committee, the senate has one bill out, and hopefully a second bill next week. There were over 500 amendments to these bills last week alone. I find it hard that the “opinion” stated below is representative of all five bills and the recent amendments.

  4) Is her husband a financial analyst for the insurance sector?

  5) Finally, this is not a government takeover of health care. The insurance exchange will include for profit insurance companies plus the public option (estimated to only cover around 10 million people) the other 30 million people will more than likely sign up with a provider participating in the exchange.

  6) I am questioning where she gets her facts from.

  7) If you haven’t gone to http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck, please do so!

  Elizabeth here is some information that I found helpful from a Health Insurance Reform Reality Check list I received;

  1) Reform isn’t about putting government in charge of your health insurance; it’s about putting you in charge of your health insurance. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.

  2) Reform will not lead to a ‘government takeover” of health care of “rationing”. On the contrary, reform will forbid many forms of rationing that are currently being used by insurance companies.

  3) Reform won’t add to the deficit – it will bring down long term costs. President Obama has demanded that health insurance reform not add to the deficit, and has identified hundreds of billions of dollars in savings by eliminating unnecessary subsidies to insurance companies through Medicare. Skyrocketing health care costs pose the biggest threat to our fiscal stability in the long term under the status quo, and reform is imperative to bring down those costs.

  I also encourage you to visit http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck to read more about it.
• Shelly Says:
  October 1st, 2009 at 2:07 pm

  Dear Friends -

  I am forwarding you a letter from President Obama below. Some of you may
  already have seen this so I apologize if I am “reloading” your in box.
  Also, please forgive my brass request but I am asking each of you to add
  your voice for Health Care Reform. There must be a public option. If there
  is no public option – and a bill is passed that says the majority of all
  Americans must have health insurance – they will deliver over 46 million new
  customers to the private insurers. This cannot happen. There must be a
  public option. Please take a moment to read President Obama’s note below.
  This should not be a political or economical issue. This is a basic human
  right – if you are sick, you should be able to see a Doctor.

  If you click through the link in Obama’s note – scroll down and there is a
  quick summary of what his health care reform bill entails and will mean.
  There must be real health care reform. President Obama is making it really
  easy to send your words to our Congress if you are interested.

  I not typically compelled to send my views around and request that people
  see things like I do, but this is too important. I feel very strongly that
  this is a moral and decency issue and says something very deep about our
  society if we do not pass real reform.

  Forgive my bold and unsolicited opinion but if you feel compelled in this
  area – please check out Obama’s words below.

  Your friend,
  Shelly
• Elizabeth Hunt Says:
  October 3rd, 2009 at 9:19 pm

  Found this chart today in WSJ outlining the details of the current Health Care Proposals:

  http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/st_healthcareproposals_20090912.html

  1) America’s Healthy Future Act
  (Sen. Max Baucus’s Bill)
  2) Affordable Health Choices Act
  (Sen .Health, Edu, Labor & Pensions Committee outline)
  3) America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009
  (House Democratic Bill)
  4) Patients’ Choice Act
  (House Republican Outline)
  5) Obama on Health Care
  (President Obama’s Proposal.)

  I do not support proposals 1,2,3 and 5 because of the chart’s description of “Cost,” “How it’s paid for,” and “Requirements for employers.” There is not enough information in proposal 4.

  Sheri asked where I get my information. Here is the answer. The analysis here is being done in real time, by me (more about that below), using the published public summaries of the various proposals, a calculator and my judgement based on experience working for large and small companies.

  According to proposals 1, 2 & 3, all employer plans valued at $20,000+ (what President Obama calls “Cadillac plans” ) would be taxed. These are the plans most people now have through their employers or unions – teachers, police, fire, accountants, doctors, lawyers, sales, marketing, banking, all other professionals and union workers you can think of.

  Based on my understanding of how corporations behave with regards to costs and P&L, I believe without question that the requirements on employers and “how it’s paid for” will result in the following:

  1) Employers will reduce the benefits within the plans they provide to decrease their value in order to avoid paying the 35% premium on plans worth more than $20,000 (Remember companies are still in cost cutting modes, 236,000 jobs lost in September. 9.8% unemployment). That is a problem for at least two reasons. First, if it is a large part of “how it’s paid for” and companies decide to get around paying it by not offering the plans it means the tax will generate less revenue that is currently being projected. Second, these are great plans that people like and want to keep.

  2) Employers and unions who continue to provide the plans will increase their employees contribution to cover the cost of the 35% premium tax. Doing the math, 35% of $20,000 equals $7,000. So these employers would see a $7,000 per year increase in the cost of each employee. A HUGE increase. They will now have to pay more than 1/3rd more for every employee for the same benefit. That’s a lot of money. Businesses cannot afford and/or will choose not to pay it. If they continue to offer the plans, they will very likely ask the employees who want to keep them to pay the additional $7000 per year, or $583 per month, for the same family plan they currently have. How much is that? If that employee is currently contributing $300 per month or $2400 per year for that $20,000 family plan and their employer passes the $7000 increase onto them (VERY LIKELY) the new annual contribution would be $9,400 a year or $883 per month! While it is a 35% increase to the employer who has been paying $20,000, for the employee who has been contributing a small portion, it would be a 290% increase. Again a bill imposing a 35% increase on employers offering plans worth $20, 000 could end up increasing the employee’s monthly payment 290%.

  If you don’t believe this, keep in mind that in the very recent past they were talking about doing a direct payroll tax for people with such plans. It was only when Congress realized that was political suicide that they back tracked and said they would put the tax on the employer. It is tantamount to the exact same thing! Very manipulative.

  3) Small businesses will try to keep their head count under the mandate in order to avoid cost increases, resulting in less job creation and in many cases job loss. The reasons are obvious and this result is certain. I see it everywhere in Massachusetts.

  ON THIS DEBATE

  Every person comes to the Health Care issue with different needs, experiences, perspectives, ideals and personality types.

  It is trivializing the complexity of the issue to put people into two camps and to identify people using cliches. I feel compelled to describe myself in order to overcome that. Here is where I am coming from. I am a registered Independent living Massachusetts, who voted for Obama (something I regret), and spent 10+ years working in New York City in marketing for large media companies. I grew up in Barney Frank’s district. I have a BA in Political Science from University of Wisconsin, Madison. I lived in San Francisco in 2000. I spent time studying & working abroad in Italy and London. I had a French boyfriend for 3 years in my 30’s (perspective trust me). I question everything. I like to figure things out for myself. Things need to make sense to me for me to believe in them. I rarely take anything at face value. I take in as much information as I can and then try to come to my own conclusion. I have high standards for everything. I like things done well. I love the strategic and creative thinking of business and the joy of being a mom. I am passionate about education and art. I despise hypocrisy and inefficiency, even though being human I am surely both unwittingly. My favorite political show is Morning Joe. None of this is really relevant, but it does sort of show that a) I am not from a Red State b) I have been indoctrinated my whole life to be liberal but I am not very c) I am not a rabid or blind Republican d) I am interested in politics, news and world events, so not totally ignorant e) I’m independent and think for myself f) I am not a tool for Rush Limbaugh, Fox News or Insurance Companies.

  Beyond who I am, some snapshots from my life that also influence me. My husband was recently unemployed for 18 months. (It sucked and we faced losing everything. Even then, I was not for this reform.) He lost his job 6 months after the birth of my second child. I have a boy 4 and a girl 2. They are the focus of my life. What I think we need more than anything is a better economy and more jobs across sectors. The LAST thing we need to be doing is ADDING to the cost of doing business. I need to say it again. Companies are still laying people off.

  From August 2007 to July 2008, I watched my sister’s 44 year old husband die from brain cancer. He had extraordinary care at the same hospital that treated Ted Kennedy, Massachusetts General Hospital. My sister, a teacher, was the insurance policy holder. She gave birth to their first child 5 months after he died. His cancer was terminal and very expensive, yet under the current system they fought to extend his life and in that VERY expensive but covered extra 9 months he fathered my niece.

  I fear that one result of the premium tax proposed on employers/unions will be that kind of coverage & care will become out of reach for more NOT less, people like him and most people in the country. The prognosis for that disease is so bad that no government on earth looking at life expectancy data v. costs of care would pay for it. These are the type of treatments for which people come to the US. I actually believe that the best care would be reserved for even fewer in the long run. You will call me crazy. I don’t care. That’s what I think.

  I detected a tiny attitude in Sheri’s first post responding to my opinions so I wanted to know where she was coming from rather than become defensive. It became clear very quickly. Sheri is working for Organizing for America. “Organizing for America, the successor organization to Obama for America, is building on the movement that elected President Obama by empowering communities across the country to bring about our agenda of change.” The web address for Organizing for America is http://www.BarackObama.com. It features, “The President’s Plan for Health Reform,” “Fight for Real Reform Action Center” “Tell Congress: Support The President’s Plan for Health Reform.” Sheri’s public Facebook profile pic (googled) depicts Obama’s “I am Organizing for Health Care” logo: http://www.facebook.com/people/Sheri-Cogley/1609555061 So, she is an organizing activist for the President’s Plan or whatever version in Congress comes closest to it. There is nothing wrong with that!! She obviously passionately believes in it.

  I don’t. I believe the legislation will ultimately necessitate bringing the average person’s benefits down in order to ensure basic care for everyone. I believe this even if President Obama says it is not true, even if the people doing his math say it’s not true. I can’t believe something if it makes no sense.

  Most of the honest ideological people I know say, who cares, we have a moral imperative to provide everyone care no matter what it costs. I respect people who actually say that, even though I disagree with them. However, I lose all respect when people say “It won’t cost you a dime and it is paid for up front.” Spare me that dime and that sentence.

  If you are a family of 4 making more that $66,000 – $88,000 per year (300-400% above poverty), you must be ready to accept the effects of proposals 1, 2, 3 and 5, either fewer benefits or pay more for what you already have.

  Universal coverage does not mean EVERYTHING will be covered. It means everyone will have “basic” care. Ask anyone in Massachusetts, where we are already mandated to pay, about the “affordable” insurance they have and you get almost exactly what the 20 something who works at the coffee shop told me this morning…”It’s expensive and it sucks. I pay $200 a month and I get nothing. Now, I don’t have to wait to get sick to go broke.” She is on the sliding scale plan.

  My biggest problem with health care reform is actually not about the reform itself, it is that the focus on it has been at the expense of every other pressing issue we face. Just like Iraq was not directly related to 911, health care reform is not going to fix our economic problems. The only way it might, is if it were to reduce the cost to businesses so they could afford not to lay more people off and/or hire a few new people. That is no where in any of these plans (except plan 4 which is not a flushed out plan to say the least.)

  The President tying this reform to economic recovery is reprehensible.

  If you are wondering whether I think the Wall Street Journal is a better source of information than BarackObama.com or Whitehouse.gov, the answer is yes I absolutely do.

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